SIBA’s Indie Beer Campaign: Why It Matters for Beer Lovers

In this episode, Neil Walker from SIBA discusses the challenges faced by independent breweries, including market access and profitability. He highlights the impact of COVID-19 on consumer behaviour and the launch of the Indie Beer campaign aimed at raising awareness about independent breweries. The conversation delves into consumer misconceptions about what breweries are independent and the importance of supporting local businesses. Neil emphasises the need for clear identification of independent breweries and the campaign's goals to bridge the gap between consumer preferences and actual purchasing behaviour.

Indie Beer Campaign Website: https://indiebeer.uk/

SIBA Website: https://www.siba.co.uk/

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to SIBA and Neil Walker's Role
• 1:16 Challenges Facing Independent Breweries
• 7:15 The Impact of COVID-19 on Local Breweries
• 11:25 The Indie Beer Campaign: Purpose and Goals
• 16:55 Consumer Awareness and Misconceptions
• 18:07 Identifying Independent Breweries
• 25:09 The Future of Indie Beer and Community Support
• 30:31 Conclusion and Key Takeaways
• 31:55 Next Guest & Outro

Transcript

The Beer Rep (00:00)
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Beer Rep chats with today I'm joined by Neil Walker who is from SIBA, the Society of Independent Brewers and Associates. Neil, thanks for joining us.

Neil Walker (00:13)
No thanks for having me, looking forward to it.

The Beer Rep (00:15)
Yeah. So to start, can you just tell us a little bit about your role at SIBA and your, what your day to day looks like?

Neil Walker (00:22)
Yeah, no problem. So I'm head of comms and marketing, um, society for independent brewers and associates, as you mentioned. So we're a trade association that represents, uh, breweries across the country, all independent breweries, around 750 different independent breweries across the country. Um, also supplier companies. So people who are, you know, hop merchants, maltsters um, service industry, uh, businesses, all that type of stuff. we, we represent a really

broad spectrum, as well as home brewers and kind of trainee brewers and that side of things. So yeah, we represent the small guys and we're trying to, by clubbing together and working together, achieve something really worthwhile for everybody

The Beer Rep (01:03)
Yeah, it's great. mean, you know, lots of independent breweries out there. What's the biggest challenges that you think they're currently facing at the moment?

Neil Walker (01:12)
So it's an interesting one with small breweries, actually the demand is really good. so you know breweries have not got an issue with selling the beer in terms of demand. The issue they've got is getting access to market, getting access to consumers, getting their beers on the bar. yeah supply is not the issue. We've also seen kind of production volumes recover now to pre-COVID levels. Obviously, during COVID, know, pubs close, of breweries are producing less beer.

The Beer Rep (01:38)
Yeah.

Neil Walker (01:42)
we've now seen that recover. So actually that, kind of production volumes back up. And like I say, demand is, is really good. you know, there's, there's an increased demand for, independent beers. for what some people might refer to as, as craft beers, which I'm sure we'll come to come onto in a bit, but it's, it's access to market and it's also profitability. you know, making decent money as as a small brewery is difficult. And I think you've got to make money in order to grow, but actually it's very difficult to make money.

for a very, very small brewery. So you kind of, there's a threshold to reach and then you can make some money, but you know, it's difficult to get.

The Beer Rep (02:17)
Yeah, I think with all small businesses, it's hard to make a profit and continue to grow and get access to market. Do you think factors like cost and taxation, supply chain issues, do you think that might affect it as well? A little bit.

Neil Walker (02:35)
Yeah,

I think it's all of that. So I think, you know, most of our members are trying to do the right thing. trying, you know, they're trying to pay national living wage and they're trying to treat their often, you know, above that, they're trying to treat their employees fairly. They're trying to run, you know, ethical businesses, but increased costs, increased national insurance, all of that factors in. A lot of our members also run, well, nearly all of them run taprooms and kind of brewery shops and things like that. But a lot of them also run pubs.

And anything, you know, any of the increases and benefit we got in the last budget with regards to kind of beer tax and, you know, beer was one of the only things that did pretty well in the last budget compared to other alcohols and other industries. But a lot of that benefit was wiped out by national insurance increases and things like that. So it's difficult, you know, it difficult to remain profitable and to sell beer at a level that people will accept. You know, we've seen recently.

the average price of a pint across the country going over a fiver. Now, if I could get a pint for a fiver where I am just outside of London, I'd be very happy. mean, know, prices around here are getting pretty crazy. You you've seen over seven pounds for a pint pretty regularly in pubs on the outskirts of London and I'm out in Surrey, which is pretty hard to swallow as a Yorkshireman. You know, it's bit too much. And our brewers are conscious of that. You know, they do not want to raise the price of their beer.

The Beer Rep (03:47)
Yeah.

Neil Walker (04:05)
And to a point people are not going to be going to the pub anymore, but it's just worth remembering the other, the very small percentage of that seven pounds or five pounds or six pounds, whatever it is, that's actually going to the brewer. A lot of it's going to the.

The Beer Rep (04:05)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's been, they've all got a

gross profit margin to hit. you know, if they start lowering that, then it's very hard to keep the business running at a profit, to keep turning over these new beers and new styles that they keep producing. you know, if it wasn't for independent breweries, I don't think there would be any of these new styles that you get coming out beer wise you know, they're the leaders in innovation, I feel.

Neil Walker (04:42)
Oh, 100%. I mean, yeah, all of that innovation is coming from small breweries. know, all of all of the top awards over the last couple of years, whether it's SIBA awards or the CAMRA awards as well, that they 90 % of the time, 99 % of the time that they're going to small breweries. That's where the really great beer is. And definitely in terms of innovation, you know, we see New England IPAs and Hazy IPAs massively in the mainstream now. You know, that started first of all in America and then filtered through to some of the kind of pioneer craft breweries.

as they were called in the UK. And then that eventually is filtered through to the mainstream. And I think that happens across the board in terms of styles. We also do see it the other way a little bit now, which is really interesting. So something, know, Guinness, which is doing really, really well at the moment, we're now seeing independent. Yeah, great marketing campaign and. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they're doing well and importantly as well, they're kind of doing well with younger people.

The Beer Rep (05:26)
Good marketing campaign. Split the G.

Neil Walker (05:37)
But we're now seeing loads of independent breweries really pushing in that area. So producing really great kind of nitro stouts. So people can choose. Yeah. I mean, Anspach is one, London Black is absolutely flying. I think it's like 75 % of their production now. So yeah, fair play to them.

The Beer Rep (05:42)
Yeah, I've seen a lot of them through.

Yeah.

Yeah,

it's also very hard to get hold of and to stock as I seem to find. I'm still trying to get it in stock for the beer rep. yeah, wherever you go, it's just sold out, sold out. And it's very hard to get hold of at the moment. It just shows you how much demand there is for Nitro Stout. I think Anspach and Hobday are doing a really, really good job of breaking into that market and trying to take some of that profit away from Guinness because they had an issue with their stock themselves.

Neil Walker (05:58)
Yeah.

Yeah.

you

Yeah, and we're seeing it actually, it's one of the fastest growing styles amongst our members. We've not released it yet as part of our beer report, but the survey this year shows it massive growth. know, whereas a couple of years ago we were seeing that kind of small independent brewers like, right, we've got to do a lager, we've got to get a lager into our range. We're now seeing that with nitro stout. know, brewers are thinking, right, if we want a full offer, we need to have a kind of Guinness alternative. We need to have a really good, really good.

The Beer Rep (06:41)
Hmm. Yeah.

Neil Walker (06:49)
easy drinking nitro stout. it's growing really fast amongst members, which is to say that wherever you are in the country, if you're stocking beer, you can probably find a local draft stout or local nitro stout.

The Beer Rep (07:00)
Yeah, it'd be great. Let's challenge the globals. So obviously, talking about that, have you seen consumer habits change over the last few years? you know, if so, has has this affected independent breweries at all?

Neil Walker (07:03)
Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, no, definitely. Massively. I mean, there was a growth kind of pre-COVID. But actually, and I'm not going to say a positive outcome of COVID, that would be a bit crass. But one of the things we did find during COVID was that actually people kind of discovering the local businesses. You know everyone's stuck in the house. Everyone's sick of going to the same supermarket down the road. So we lobbied government and managed to effect change on that so that breweries could stay open as kind of part of a part of the food chain. So breweries allowed to stay open during COVID.

Lots of them were doing, you know, local delivery, local drop services, things like that for the very first time. So actually loads of people discovered their local brewery for the first time, didn't realize they there and they've stuck with them. And I think also it forced a lot of breweries that perhaps, you know, hadn't got around to setting up a web shop or hadn't got around to, you know, bottling and canning and things like that to do it. And that's continued. we've seen a really, really big growth in kind of.

The Beer Rep (08:08)
Yeah.

Neil Walker (08:12)
Brew is building that kind of local consumer base and local community.

The Beer Rep (08:16)
Yeah, it changed a lot as well for like, obviously.

there's a lot of micro pubs around as well. And they kind of changed their habits as well, because obviously, when they didn't obviously probably do takeaways, they were starting to do that and deliver locally to their to their area. So people didn't, people couldn't go into pubs, obviously. So, you know, the next best thing was to place an order and then they were going to deliver it and able to keep up, you know, drinking traditional independent breweries beer. During COVID, it was a it was a good thing and yeah, it really helped push I think independent

breweries more.

Neil Walker (08:50)
It was also good

things as well. was around kind of pavement licenses as well. obviously during COVID we all had to sit outside and drink our beer, which was fine. But actually a lot of the licensing got kind of loosened because of that. they made it much easier for pubs and particularly micro pubs where you might be tiny inside, but you've got a bit of space outside where you can put some tables. Local licensing is much kind of much more flexible on that now. And that's been great. That's been great.

The Beer Rep (08:55)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Neil Walker (09:18)
We don't have an amazing summer in England, but actually long as you get things set up right and get some parasols and things like that, actually, most of the year round, can sit outside. So that's helped those little pubs like Micro Pubs kind of expand the reach a little bit.

The Beer Rep (09:29)
Yeah, actually quite

a nice day today actually. I quite surprised the sun's out.

Neil Walker (09:35)
Yeah, it's sunny here as well.

The Beer Rep (09:37)
Yeah, whereabouts are from?

Neil Walker (09:39)
So I'm originally from East Yorkshire. So I'm originally from a little town called Goole which is kind of on the way to Hull. Ripon sorry, Ripon is where SIBA is based up in North Yorkshire, but I'm down on the outskirts of London in Surrey. So there's myself and a couple of the colleagues that are down here where we're a pretty small team at SIBA. So we kind of have to spread ourselves across the country a little bit to be able to cover it. And then Ripon's our head office, which is where...

The Beer Rep (10:02)
Yeah.

Neil Walker (10:05)
and all of the kind of membership and administration and also our beerflex stuff happens. That's the kind of system that we use to sell beer in some of the pub companies. So allow our members to sell beer in some of pub companies. So yeah, we're kind of spread out all over the place, but there's only nine of us that work for SIBA So we hopefully punch above our weight.

The Beer Rep (10:23)
Yeah, it's

built in, but you get everywhere. That's the idea.

Neil Walker (10:28)
Yeah,

we try to and I think people probably think there's more of us and also because we have obviously... Yeah, I mean...

The Beer Rep (10:34)
Yeah, I I certainly did. I quite surprised

there's only nine of you, to be fair.

Neil Walker (10:40)
And also, mean, you know, we're the kind of paid staff, we also have a huge board of directors and they're brewers from the region. So you have three elected directors from each of the nine SIBA regions. So it might be, you know, Northeast or Scotland or Southwest or wherever. And those directors, you know, have got their own businesses to run, but they put a massive amount of their time into helping SIBA, running local competitions, you know, joining our board meeting to talk about the issues, drive.

drive SIBA forward. yeah, massive shout out to those volunteer directors as well, because they're a huge part of what makes SIBA tick.

The Beer Rep (11:13)
Yes, that's really good. So you're going to give us an overview of the Indie Beer campaign and why it was launched.

Neil Walker (11:20)
Yeah, very, very happy to. So obviously Sieve has traditionally been a trade organization. We still are a trade organization, but our focus has really been on kind of industry. And the Indie Beer campaign is really our first foray into a true consumer facing campaign. We've done some stuff in the past around independence and we had a kind of previous independence seal, but it was really a bit more about the breweries and it was a bit more kind of trade focus. The Indie Beer campaign

The Beer Rep (11:47)
Yeah.

Neil Walker (11:49)
is really aimed at consumers. In development of this campaign, we looked at what really matters to consumers. What do they think of when they think independent? Obviously, we are the Society of Independent Brewers and Associates, so independent is in the name. But we wanted to check that actually, is that something that resonates with people? Are people bothered? Do people think of independence as good? And we did some really good research through YouGov into

What do people attribute to kind of independent businesses? And actually the top answer on that was about 67 % was run by real people. Other top answers were kind of trustworthy, handmade, high quality. We were like, wow, that's, and they were the top four answers. So clearly people are associating, know, independent with good quality and handmade and local. And we felt that actually,

The Beer Rep (12:30)
Yeah.

Neil Walker (12:42)
people were trying to buy independent and people were trying to support local businesses, but perhaps they were buying things such as Beavertown Neck Oil or they were buying a pint of London Pride or they were buying, you know, a pint of Doom Bar thinking they were buying a local beer and they weren't. So the next part of the kind of development was to, again, by YouGov, was to do research into whether people think that these brands are independent. So that was the kind of first question.

The Beer Rep (12:50)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Neil Walker (13:10)
And

we did that by showing them kind of 10 different beer brands. had five, which were pretty well known independent brands. things that you might be able to get into a supermarket such as, know, vocation or Five Points and we also have Fyne ales in there, those types of brands. And then we also had five previously independent brands, which are now owned by global companies. So I'm sure your listeners would be able to name them, but things like Camden Hells and Beavertown and Doom Bar.

And we asked people, right, okay, these are the 10 brands. Which of these do you think are independent and by independent? And we really spelled it out by independent. mean not owned by global beer company, such as Heineken, Budweiser, AB InBev And the top answer, 40 % of people said Beavertown neck oil. So 40 % of people think that Beavertown neck oil is independent. And they were choosing that above and before the genuinely independent brands. So.

The Beer Rep (14:09)
Yeah.

Neil Walker (14:09)
clearly people are confused. you know, the globals will kind of come back on this and I've heard it in person. We make no, we don't hide the fact that we own these brands. People know, but clearly they don't. We kind of had a follow-up question on that and we said, okay, actually, on the previous page, these five beers that we showed you, actually they're now owned by global companies.

The Beer Rep (14:25)
Every day? Yeah.

Neil Walker (14:39)
Knowing that, do you think consumers are being misled? And 75 % of people said, yes, consumers are being misled. And actually, if you look just at the beer drinkers that were surveyed, so you kind of filtered it to beer drinkers, it went up to 81%. So, I mean, for us, that was, sorry, go on.

The Beer Rep (14:54)
Yeah, it's a lot.

It's a lot. It's a big percentage of people that are being misled. Because when a global company like Heineken, AB Inbev, do take over an independent, they don't announce it. They don't say to the world, we now own Camden Hills, you know, they're not going to do that. So they continue to trade as if they're just still independent to everyone else.

Neil Walker (15:10)
No.

Yeah. it's, mean, you there might be kind of a press release that goes out to the beer trade, but you know, that that's it. And then who's paying attention to that? So consumers are definitely confused. I mean, that's what it showed to us. And, know, a great example I frequently use is, know, I, my local cricket club, I was there for a birthday party or something like that, has four beers on the bar. You know, like I say, I'm just outside London in Surrey.

And there's four beers on the bar. There's Asahi Superdry, Pilsner Urquell. I think there's Meantime Pale Ale and London Pride. Now you're telling me that someone going into there, getting a beer, somebody is not going to go, do you know what? I'm just outside of London. I'm in Surrey, whatever, I'm at the cricket club. I'm going to support local. I'm going to get a pint of London Pride. I'm going to get a pint of Meantime London Pale Ale. Absolutely people are going to make that decision and not know that all of those brands are owned by Asahi in Japan.

The Beer Rep (16:11)
Yeah.

Neil Walker (16:16)
Now, it's not to say they're not good beers. They are all perfectly decent beers. But people are making that judgment. People are trying to spend their money with independence. And they're not. It's going to a global.

The Beer Rep (16:25)
Yeah,

I mean, the kind of the question is, are they buying them beers to support independent breweries, thinking that they are an independent brewery still or are they buying them because they just like the beer and they've been drinking it when they was an independent brewery. That's the kind of question you have to, I guess, filter out, you know, and find out if the consumer is actually wanting to buy an independent brewery beer or if they just buying it because they've been drinking it for X amount of years.

Neil Walker (16:54)
Yeah, exactly. And you know what, there's a massive percentage of this is not about kind of like, you know, bigs bad, smalls good. There's a massive percentage of people who, who were not bothered. You know, they're happy to just drink a taste of beer. don't care who owns it. That's absolutely fine. We did some research. It was kind of via a pub group and some other businesses. We did some research into kind of consumer buying habits. And we looked at pubs where there was global beers available. There are also kind of local independent beers available.

And when people were buying a beer, was about 30 % of people went for a kind of local independent beer. And about 70 % of people went for a global beer, lager, Guinness, whatever. So we are not trying to take over the world. What we're saying is that that 30 % of people who were buying local beers, we want to make sure that every single time they try to do that, they're actually doing it. And currently in the UK, it's about six or 7 % market share for independent beer.

there's a big gap between seven and 30. So we're just trying to get that gap a bit closer.

The Beer Rep (17:57)
Yeah, definitely. So how can consumers easily identify independent breweries so they can make their informed choices?

Neil Walker (18:06)
Yeah. So the, um, the indie beer company is we're doing it, um, with lots of point of sale. So we're asking breweries and it's not just SIBA members. We've got non-SIBA members that are signed up in support who are, you know, who are, who meet our kind of criteria of independent. And they'll be adding it to the pump clips, the cans, uh, the kind of IB indie beer logo. Um, they're also going to be using on point of sale. So when you go to the bar, we've got kind of bar runners, but most importantly, we've got kind of pump clip crowners. But actually if you're in a pub and you're not sure, um, there's the indie beer website.

So if you go to indiebeer.uk you can type in the name of any brewery in the UK, and it will tell you whether they're independent or if they're not independent, who that business is actually owned by. And the response to that has been incredible. Within the first two weeks of launching it, so we launched it last October, the first two weeks, we saw over 40,000 brewery searches from about 17,000 active users.

That was really, really incredible. And that has continued to grow from there. There's been a massive, massive response to it. And there's been some really good press coverage and things like that as well. But yeah, it's indiebeer.uk And it works really great on your mobile as well. So if you're it on your mobile, it's really quick and easy to use. You can also sign up as a kind of supporter on the website as well. obviously, you can sign up as a brewery supporter, but also a venue or a beer drinker. So if you want to be kept in touch with the campaign.

We've also been doing monthly beer giveaways, win a case of Thornbridge beers and all that type of stuff. Sign up in support and we'll keep you in touch with us going on.

The Beer Rep (19:40)
Brilliant. So, yeah, I mean, you guys launched literally around about the same time as the beer rep back in October. And I had all my wording sorted out with craft beer, craft beer, and then you guys launched and I was like, okay, time to change everything now. And just wear the indie beer. Yeah, it's brilliant because obviously, you know, everyone's been thinking craft beer, craft beer, know, for independent breweries and that's how it's always been. But even when...

Neil Walker (19:56)
Sorry about that.

The Beer Rep (20:07)
craft beer, the term craft beer came out, there was a lot of confusion around that as well. Not many people understood what craft beer meant. Probably still don't.

Neil Walker (20:12)
Yeah.

It was

a really interesting one because I think obviously that terminology for craft beer kind of came from America. And I think when it was first being used in the UK, it became a shorthand for good beer that's in a keg. So generally it was kind of draft keg beer or was a bottle and canned beer. Generally it was kind of American style stuff. So a lot of the stuff that kind of BrewDog was doing, it's like that was a craft beer.

And it was a kind of pushback against the traditional cask beers and stuff like that. it's a pretty, the argument doesn't really stand up that, you know, how can you say that something like Harvey's Best or Timothy Taylor Landlord is not a craft beer? You know, clearly it is, but that terminology didn't really work. there was a of, I think, infighting amongst the industry. And then obviously with the kind of brewery buyouts from the global brewers, that just muddied the waters even further.

The Beer Rep (21:01)
Yeah.

Neil Walker (21:12)
You know, for a while we were kind of referring to ourselves as independent craft beer. That was kind of what we were pushing. But by doing that, you're almost annexing yourself. You're almost like letting the globals have craft beer and then wear that kind of this separate thing. So with this campaign, we wanted something which was defensible and which was kind of new terminology. It's like, no, no, we're indie beer. That's what we are. We're indie beer. This is beer from independent breweries. And it's not something which can be kind of coaxed.

The Beer Rep (21:17)
Yeah.

Neil Walker (21:41)
co-opted by global breweries and we just felt like it was the right way to go. We still use craft beer in some of our communications and things like that and we still might talk about it to make sure consumers are understanding what we're all about. But yeah, the main driver on this is Indie beer and people have really, really got behind that. People saying, reels from Instagram coming through saying craft beer is dead, long live Indie beer and we love all that. Yeah, it's gone really well.

The Beer Rep (22:09)
Yeah. Yeah, it's great. It's,

it's not muddled either. It's, it's, it's not confusing. it in the name, it says exactly what it is. Like Ronseal you know, does what it says on the tin. Indie beer campaign. Yeah. It's brilliant. So as beer drinkers, what, you know, what could, retailers like say for pubs, beer shops, do think they can do a bit more to, push

the Indie Beer campaign and how do they get that message across to their customers?

Neil Walker (22:41)
Yeah, we've had a really, really good response actually from beer shops and also from pubs. So there's lots of pubs across the country that pretty much just do independent beer and lots of them have been in touch and we've been sending out kind of window stickers that say, indie beer sold here and please continue doing that, get in touch. We're very, very happy to send campaign material out to you for free of charge. But yeah, just sign up in support via the website, also bottle shops as well. We've seen lots of them.

get in touch. And we're also in the kind of early stages of speaking some of the kind of bigger national retailers. So what we would love is, know, in the way that you walk into a supermarket and it's kind of sectioned off area. So there might be, you this is the alcohol free beers or these are the gluten free. for it to be very, good. Yeah, indie beer. And that would be for all independent beer. know, this is again, this is not about SIBA membership, you know, even if you go on the indie beer website, that has got

The Beer Rep (23:25)
the indie bass section. Yeah.

Neil Walker (23:37)
all independent breweries, know, so whether they're a SIBA member or not. We've also had non-members getting in support of the campaign. you know, one of the things at the beginning of this was working with the independent family brewers of Britain. So these are the kind of bigger brewers like Sheppard Neame, who are a pretty big brewery, but are still independent. They are now actually signing up in support of the campaign. They're going to be getting behind it. People at Hook Norton as well, you know, they're an independent brewery. They're a bigger brewery.

The Beer Rep (23:40)
Yeah.

Neil Walker (24:05)
but they're still not owned by the globals. They are, you know, family owned. And I think that's really important. Well, yeah. And all that helps.

The Beer Rep (24:09)
Yeah, it's good to see. Yeah, it's good to see them, them long standing breweries

still independent and not being tempted by the money to sell.

Neil Walker (24:19)
Yeah,

exactly. Because, you know, we want someone to be buying, you know, a pint of Adnams a pint of St. Austell and knowing that they are still independent, you know, these are pretty big breweries, but they're still independent. They're still run with the same kind of ethos and beliefs that we've got. And actually, you know, we just named St. Austell our Brewer of the Year, Georgina Young from St. Austell, our Brewer of the Year at BeerX So clearly there's a massive

The Beer Rep (24:42)
Yep. Yeah.

Neil Walker (24:47)
love for those brands and they do a lot for smaller independent breweries as well. So yeah, there's room for all of us. We're a lot closer to someone like St. Austell than we are to someone like Heineken. So let's push in the same direction really.

The Beer Rep (24:59)
how have you monitored success for the Indie Beer campaign to date and, you know, what do you hope to achieve in the next year or so?

Neil Walker (25:07)
Yeah. So, mean, obviously we've been monitoring the kind of number of signups and things like that. And also the, the press coverage. think what's been interesting on this is we've, we've really kind of reached outside of the beer bubble. We've managed to get into the kind of public conversation. So what was really great is, you know, in the, the first couple of weeks when we launched the campaign, I'll talk about some more recent stuff in a second, but when we first launched the campaign, you know, there was, you know, the war in Gaza, the presidential election going on.

And the Guardian did their editorial on the Indie Beer campaign. They kind of gave their take on the Indie Beer campaign. And the editorials in the Guardian are obviously about, you know, what's in the public conversation? What are people, show me age now, what are people talking about around the water cooler? And they were talking about the Indie Beer campaign, you know, they said with a raised glass in hand, so does this newspaper get behind the campaign? That's been really fantastic. And actually my chief executive, Andy, he was saying in a couple of weeks when we launched the campaign, was in the, he was in the,

doctor's office or his, you know, we're waiting for a train or something like that and got chatting to a lady next to him and about what they did. And she said, well you have something to do with this Indie beer campaign I've heard about, you know, and that has, that has happened a lot. We've, we've really reached outside of the bubble and we've been speaking to pubs where customers have been coming in and saying, what Indie beers have you got on? Or saying, have you got any craft beers? it's not craft beer anymore. It's Indie beer. So for me, almost that, that anecdotal stuff has been the biggest success.

We've had a habit in the beer industry in the past of kind of just being a little bit insular, you know, perhaps just kind of trying to talk to the industry or talk to to the beer geeks or whatever, that just are really, really into it. We want to reach out to normal beer drinkers, you know, who might one day have a pint of Madri, the next day have a pint of London Pride and say to them, well, look, actually, when you, when you're going for this, why don't you try one of these? Why don't you try a genuine local beer? Or if someone, you know, likes a pint of neck oil, are they buying it because they think it's independent?

The Beer Rep (26:45)
Yeah.

Neil Walker (27:04)
And if they are, then you should try this. yeah, the response has been brilliant. There's over 400 breweries now kind of actively signed up in support of the campaign, hundreds of venues. And that consumer database is growing by the hundreds pretty regularly as well. yeah, it's slow increments, but it's growing massively. We're also this year launching Indie Beer Week as well, which is on the 11th to the 20th of April. So that's going to be...

The Beer Rep (27:06)
Yeah.

Neil Walker (27:34)
kind of a week, sorry, a week with two weekends either side. And that's going to be a string of events across the country. And there's been already some fantastic stuff organized as part of that. We're doing some stuff with the Maltings Fest down at the Southwest. That's going to be kind of the official launch of Indie Beer Week. But we're also working with Nottingham Castle Fest, is just slightly before Attic Brewery in Birmingham. They're doing a fantastic kind of beer trail where you collect badges along the way and then get a kind of prize at end. And that's something which is happening across the country. So.

The Beer Rep (27:58)
Yeah.

Neil Walker (28:02)
whether you're an independent brewery or you're a venue that sells independent beer or a pub or a tap room or a bottle shop, whatever, you can get involved in that campaign. You can submit your event via the website and we'll promote it for you. It's about us all coming together to kind of push in the same direction. And there's plenty of room for all those businesses to get involved in the campaign. So yeah, it's going really well and we just want to continue kind of keep up the pace really.

The Beer Rep (28:27)
Yeah, brilliant. Any plans for an indie beer festival in the future maybe?

Neil Walker (28:32)
Well,

funny enough, I our, I suppose they would kind of take credit as being the first, but actually our Scotland festival that we already run is Indie Beer Scotland. So that was something which we developed a couple of years ago. It's now in its fourth year. So actually that festival kind of predates the campaign itself. But actually a lot of our members are looking at that and saying, well, you we've got the Indie Beer campaign. We've got Indie Beer Scotland.

Siba's awards itself are actually our beer awards and they're actually going to be the Indie Beer Awards from this year. So starting as of the Southwest competition, they will be the Indie Beer Awards. They are going to be something which is going to be open to non-members as well. So you're going to have an opportunity to enter those competitions, even if you're not a Siba member. So again, we're just trying to open things up. We're trying to grow. But yeah, I want to see Indie Beer festivals happening across the UK.

The Beer Rep (29:26)
Yeah, that would be brilliant. And then that would definitely draw more attention to the whole campaign. Exactly what people are going to festival-wise, all the beers that will be there will be independent breweries, local and across the country. So yeah, that would be really good.

Neil Walker (29:39)
Yeah, and

we're also, you know, we're keen to kind of like reach out and work with existing festivals as well. So like we're supporting Great British Beer Festival up in Birmingham, which I think will be really interesting. Kind of first one outside London for, I think ever actually. Maybe they did one in the very, very beginning, but we're in support of that. And there's loads and loads of great events going on. You know, we don't even own really independents you know, things like

The Beer Rep (29:56)
Yeah.

Neil Walker (30:06)
Indie Beer Feast in Sheffield, which is nothing to do with those, that's run by Jules Grey, and is an absolutely fantastic event. And, you know, we'd be very happy to promote that on the website and give them a push as well, because we are all on the same side

The Beer Rep (30:08)
Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Everyone's on the same side. So what would be the key message you'd like consumers to take away from the campaign?

Neil Walker (30:27)
really it's just about supporting local, supporting independent. every time you spend beer, spend money on a beer with a local business, you know, you're supporting that local economy, you're supporting local jobs. You are helping a business which really, really drives value to a community. We know that actually an independent brewery opening in an area actually raises house prices. It delivers to the local economy. It's a really, really good thing for your area. So you want to support those businesses.

In the same way that, you know, it's terrible when the last pub in a village closes, we want there to be independent breweries in every single town and city across the UK. So yeah, support them, get involved in the campaign. And if you're not sure whether you are or not, have a check on the indiebeer.uk website and you can find out for sure.

The Beer Rep (31:15)
Yeah, all the links to for SIBA for the indie beer campaign will be in the description. Any final words before we close up?

Neil Walker (31:27)
No, I think we've kind of covered it there. I just want to say massive thanks for having me on. think that was really, really interesting. And yeah, happy to come back in the future and talk about all things Indie beer or SIBA if you like me to. Yeah, but thanks for having me on.

The Beer Rep (31:39)
That's

been an absolute pleasure. We're a massive supporter of the indie beer campaign and independent breweries, Yeah, so thanks for coming on and it'd great to have you back on another time soon. yeah, next episode, next week, we'll be talking to Oli Hurlow from Attic Brew Co. as well as stocking a few of their beers. yeah.

So stay tuned and we'll be catching up with you guys next week. Again, thanks Neil for coming on the show and we'll catch you again soon. Cheers.

Neil Walker (32:11)
Thanks a lot, appreciate it.